Dumb Questions

[Keith Krehbiel]

Running Debian/woody......
How do you read a text file?
I have emacs and have read quite a bit of the manual but I have not yet
found the place where it tells how to get a file into the editor to
view/edit.
How do you get install tools (apt-get, dselect or other suggestions) to
recognize files that are not on the distro cds or on the Debian website
but rather on a hard disk connected to the computer?
Is there a short description somewhere of the file system, hierachy,
purpose for various elements?
Many of the files mentioned in posts here and other places seem to be
text files. Some seem to be lists of parameters and others possibly
shell scripts. Is it possible to really screw things up by changing
them? (provided one can get them into an editor to change them)
Often advice is given to 'simply' change file 'x' to read 'y'. How do
you do that?
Is it possible to override default directorie(s) by giving an entire
pathlist?
Somewhere I read that the filesystem does not necessarily describe a
single drive or device but can be spread over several devices. How can
you tell what you have in the way of files/devices/etc.?
Ls seems to be pretty good at listing directories but doesn't seem to
want to list files. Is that normal?
Is it possible to install and run a Debian system without a
network/internet connection?
What GUI should work with Debian? I have what I think is a copy of
XFree86. Can this be made to work?
Thanks for your patience. I know all these things should be obvious but
they are not for me.

[Jack Malmostoso]

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Running Debian/woody......
How do you read a text file?

$ less
$ cat
$ more

Post by Keith Krehbiel
How do you get install tools (apt-get, dselect or other suggestions) to
recognize files that are not on the distro cds or on the Debian website
but rather on a hard disk connected to the computer?

Copy all your .deb in /var/cache/apt/archives. They will be automagically
recognized. I think symbolic links work too.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is there a short description somewhere of the file system, hierachy,
purpose for various elements?

http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Many of the files mentioned in posts here and other places seem to be
text files. Some seem to be lists of parameters and others possibly
shell scripts. Is it possible to really screw things up by changing
them?

If you do unwise things, yes.
If you *comment* and *make backups* rather than *deleting parts* and
*substitute files* you are reasonably safe.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
(provided one can get them into an editor to change them)
Often advice is given to 'simply' change file 'x' to read 'y'. How do
you do that?

With a text editor.
I suggest you one among joe, pico or nano.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is it possible to override default directorie(s) by giving an entire
pathlist?

I don't get it.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Somewhere I read that the filesystem does not necessarily describe a
single drive or device but can be spread over several devices. How can
you tell what you have in the way of files/devices/etc.?

You can mount /home/keith in /dev/hda1 but have /home/keith/downloads
mounted on /dev/hdb3. It is the power of a serious filesystem.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Ls seems to be pretty good at listing directories but doesn't seem to
want to list files. Is that normal?

What do you mean to "list files"? Print them to stdout? cat and less are
your friends.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is it possible to install and run a Debian system without a
network/internet connection?

Yes: get all 7 cd's and be patient.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
What GUI should work with Debian? I have what I think is a copy of
XFree86. Can this be made to work?

The XFree86 packages included in Debian do work.

[Keith Krehbiel]

Post by Jack Malmostoso

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Running Debian/woody......
How do you read a text file?

$ less
$ cat
$ more

Post by Keith Krehbiel
How do you get install tools (apt-get, dselect or other suggestions) to
recognize files that are not on the distro cds or on the Debian website
but rather on a hard disk connected to the computer?

Copy all your .deb in /var/cache/apt/archives. They will be automagically
recognized. I think symbolic links work too.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is there a short description somewhere of the file system, hierachy,
purpose for various elements?

http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Many of the files mentioned in posts here and other places seem to be
text files. Some seem to be lists of parameters and others possibly
shell scripts. Is it possible to really screw things up by changing
them?

If you do unwise things, yes.
If you *comment* and *make backups* rather than *deleting parts* and
*substitute files* you are reasonably safe.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
(provided one can get them into an editor to change them)
Often advice is given to 'simply' change file 'x' to read 'y'. How do
you do that?

With a text editor.
I suggest you one among joe, pico or nano.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is it possible to override default directorie(s) by giving an entire
pathlist?

I don't get it.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Somewhere I read that the filesystem does not necessarily describe a
single drive or device but can be spread over several devices. How can
you tell what you have in the way of files/devices/etc.?

You can mount /home/keith in /dev/hda1 but have /home/keith/downloads
mounted on /dev/hdb3. It is the power of a serious filesystem.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Ls seems to be pretty good at listing directories but doesn't seem to
want to list files. Is that normal?

What do you mean to "list files"? Print them to stdout? cat and less are
your friends.

cat does what? less does what? ie, what sort of programs are they?

Post by Jack Malmostoso

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is it possible to install and run a Debian system without a
network/internet connection?

Yes: get all 7 cd's and be patient.

The set I have has 6 cd's. One has been damaged. I have downloaded the
entire cd image but have been unable to burn a new one. I also have
downloaded a couple of the packages that I know to be corrupt and would
like to be able to use them.

Post by Jack Malmostoso

Post by Keith Krehbiel
What GUI should work with Debian? I have what I think is a copy of
XFree86. Can this be made to work?

The XFree86 packages included in Debian do work.

[I R A Darth Aggie]

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:17:12 -0600,

+ >>Is it possible to override default directorie(s) by giving an entire
+ >>pathlist?
+ > I don't get it.

I think he's asking "can I change the default path?"

A: Yes. Most distro's default your shell to /bin/bash, so you can
modify the PATH variable in ~/.bashrc like so (~/ is a shell shorthand
meaning "top level of my home directory"):

export PATH=${PATH}:/home/myhome/bin

${PATH} means that I want to append to the current PATH setting. If I
omit that, I can remake the PATH to my heart's content (but you
probably really want /bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11 retained).

+ > What do you mean to "list files"? Print them to stdout? cat and less are
+ > your friends.
+ >
+ cat does what? less does what? ie, what sort of programs are they?

man cat
man less

cat dumps the contents of files to STDOUT (standard out, your screen)
without pause. You can append multiple files by redirecting the output
to another file:

cat file1 file2 file3 > threefiles

The new file "threefiles" will contain the contents of file1, file2,
and file3 in sequence. The ">" is the redirection operator.

less is a paging program. Paging in this case meaning "display one
page of text, then wait for me to do something". This is more useful
than cat if you're attempting to read something.

Did I mention "more"? "more" is the original unixy pager, leading to
the notion that "less is more". Yes, there are lots of geeky word puns
in the unixy world.

+ The set I have has 6 cd's. One has been damaged.

As long as it isn't the first CD, you should be able to install. You
don't need *all* of the CD's to install Debian. Historically speaking,
I've at most used the first 2 CD's.

I now use network installs. I have a fat pipe and a local mirror.

James

[Keith Krehbiel]

Post by I R A Darth Aggie
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:17:12 -0600,

+ >>Is it possible to override default directorie(s) by giving an entire
+ >>pathlist?
+ > I don't get it.

I think he's asking "can I change the default path?"
A: Yes. Most distro's default your shell to /bin/bash, so you can
modify the PATH variable in ~/.bashrc like so (~/ is a shell shorthand
export PATH=${PATH}:/home/myhome/bin
${PATH} means that I want to append to the current PATH setting. If I
omit that, I can remake the PATH to my heart's content (but you
probably really want /bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11 retained).

+ > What do you mean to "list files"? Print them to stdout? cat and less are
+ > your friends.
+ >
+ cat does what? less does what? ie, what sort of programs are they?

man cat
man less
cat dumps the contents of files to STDOUT (standard out, your screen)
without pause. You can append multiple files by redirecting the output
cat file1 file2 file3 > threefiles
The new file "threefiles" will contain the contents of file1, file2,
and file3 in sequence. The ">" is the redirection operator.
less is a paging program. Paging in this case meaning "display one
page of text, then wait for me to do something". This is more useful
than cat if you're attempting to read something.
Did I mention "more"? "more" is the original unixy pager, leading to
the notion that "less is more". Yes, there are lots of geeky word puns
in the unixy world.

+ The set I have has 6 cd's. One has been damaged.

As long as it isn't the first CD, you should be able to install. You
don't need *all* of the CD's to install Debian. Historically speaking,
I've at most used the first 2 CD's.

Of course it's the first one. Which other one would get ruined first? lol
I am considering installing onto one of the partitions on my g3 so as to
have easier access to the internet and my burner which is in the g3.
Thinking maybe I could burn a disk from linux that would work. Also
winter is coming on and my SuperMac is in an unheated shed. At my age
comfort counts for something.

Post by I R A Darth Aggie
I now use network installs. I have a fat pipe and a local mirror.
James

[Nikita Lvov]

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Running Debian/woody......

First, you should go out an buy yourself a book. 'A Practical Guide to
Linux' by Mark Sobell is a goodie, and has a foreword by Linus Torwalds
to enhance its credibility. Just a generic Linux book (not any
particulr dist)

Post by Keith Krehbiel
How do you read a text file?
I have emacs and have read quite a bit of the manual but I have not yet
found the place where it tells how to get a file into the editor to
view/edit.

Just type the following command - 'thefile' being the name of the file
you want to open - and press ENTER. If such a file doesn't exist, emacs
will create it for you. But be aware of WHERE you are, as the file will
be created in whatever directory you are in when you type the command.

emacs thefile [ENTER]

if you're already in emacs, hold down CONTROL and press X then F, and
then type in the filename (and full path if you wish) where the cursor
is on the bottom line of the screen.

hold CONTROL and press X and then S - to save your work.


If you can't sort out WHERE you are, use this command

pwd [ENTER]

it will tell you (it means: print working directory)

Post by Keith Krehbiel
How do you get install tools (apt-get, dselect or other suggestions) to
recognize files that are not on the distro cds or on the Debian website
but rather on a hard disk connected to the computer?

I suggest you stick with Debian files until you've got a better hang of
things.

You can copy files into a directory like /usr/bin and then work with
them using dpkg, and then there's make, which will build utilities and
configure them. But why not toy around with what is there, and get
some solid groundwork done. The Woody CDs have around 8500 utilities;
I reckon you'll find plenty in there. Download the 'packages' file and
read it; it lists what's there, and the various dependencies.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is there a short description somewhere of the file system, hierachy,
purpose for various elements?
Many of the files mentioned in posts here and other places seem to be
text files.

You really do need to buy one of those books! The only way to learn
Linux is to roll up your sleeves and get in there. If you seek to
understand it before you start, you never will.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Some seem to be lists of parameters and others possibly
shell scripts. Is it possible to really screw things up by changing
them? (provided one can get them into an editor to change them)

YES YES YES. Hopefully you've sussed to only be ROOT when absolutely
necessary. If you log on as your day-to-day username, you won't be
allowed to do much damage. IF you must ROOT around where you
shouldn't, then be prepared to scrap everything and reinstall.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Often advice is given to 'simply' change file 'x' to read 'y'. How do
you do that?
Is it possible to override default directorie(s) by giving an entire
pathlist?
Somewhere I read that the filesystem does not necessarily describe a
single drive or device but can be spread over several devices. How can
you tell what you have in the way of files/devices/etc
Ls seems to be pretty good at listing directories but doesn't seem to
want to list files. Is that normal?

Everything that ls lists that doesn't start with a d is a file.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is it possible to install and run a Debian system without a
network/internet connection?

Yes, without question. The first machine I installed Debian on didn't
even have a CD, or a floppy for that matter. Connection to an
Electricity supply is a requirement, though.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
What GUI should work with Debian? I have what I think is a copy of
XFree86. Can this be made to work?
Thanks for your patience. I know all these things should be obvious but
they are not for me.

Getting X Windows to work it not always straighforward. But this can be
-ironically - an genuine aid to learning. Work within the console and
you'll learn much quicker.

Go out to a bookstore NOW. Ask more questions, sure, but read a couple
of chapters first.


Nikita Lvov

Registered User #369609

[Keith Krehbiel]

Post by Nikita Lvov

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Running Debian/woody......

First, you should go out an buy yourself a book. 'A Practical Guide to
Linux' by Mark Sobell is a goodie, and has a foreword by Linus Torwalds
to enhance its credibility. Just a generic Linux book (not any
particulr dist)

Post by Keith Krehbiel
How do you read a text file?
I have emacs and have read quite a bit of the manual but I have not yet
found the place where it tells how to get a file into the editor to
view/edit.

Just type the following command - 'thefile' being the name of the file
you want to open - and press ENTER. If such a file doesn't exist, emacs
will create it for you. But be aware of WHERE you are, as the file will
be created in whatever directory you are in when you type the command.
emacs thefile [ENTER]
if you're already in emacs, hold down CONTROL and press X then F, and
then type in the filename (and full path if you wish) where the cursor
is on the bottom line of the screen.
hold CONTROL and press X and then S - to save your work.
If you can't sort out WHERE you are, use this command
pwd [ENTER]
it will tell you (it means: print working directory)

Post by Keith Krehbiel
How do you get install tools (apt-get, dselect or other suggestions) to
recognize files that are not on the distro cds or on the Debian website
but rather on a hard disk connected to the computer?

I suggest you stick with Debian files until you've got a better hang of
things.
You can copy files into a directory like /usr/bin and then work with
them using dpkg, and then there's make, which will build utilities and
configure them. But why not toy around with what is there, and get
some solid groundwork done. The Woody CDs have around 8500 utilities;
I reckon you'll find plenty in there. Download the 'packages' file and
read it; it lists what's there, and the various dependencies.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is there a short description somewhere of the file system, hierachy,
purpose for various elements?
Many of the files mentioned in posts here and other places seem to be
text files.

You really do need to buy one of those books! The only way to learn
Linux is to roll up your sleeves and get in there. If you seek to
understand it before you start, you never will.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Some seem to be lists of parameters and others possibly
shell scripts. Is it possible to really screw things up by changing
them? (provided one can get them into an editor to change them)

YES YES YES. Hopefully you've sussed to only be ROOT when absolutely
necessary. If you log on as your day-to-day username, you won't be
allowed to do much damage. IF you must ROOT around where you
shouldn't, then be prepared to scrap everything and reinstall.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Often advice is given to 'simply' change file 'x' to read 'y'. How do
you do that?
Is it possible to override default directorie(s) by giving an entire
pathlist?
Somewhere I read that the filesystem does not necessarily describe a
single drive or device but can be spread over several devices. How can
you tell what you have in the way of files/devices/etc
Ls seems to be pretty good at listing directories but doesn't seem to
want to list files. Is that normal?

Everything that ls lists that doesn't start with a d is a file.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is it possible to install and run a Debian system without a
network/internet connection?

Yes, without question. The first machine I installed Debian on didn't
even have a CD, or a floppy for that matter. Connection to an
Electricity supply is a requirement, though.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
What GUI should work with Debian? I have what I think is a copy of
XFree86. Can this be made to work?
Thanks for your patience. I know all these things should be obvious but
they are not for me.

Getting X Windows to work it not always straighforward. But this can be
-ironically - an genuine aid to learning. Work within the console and
you'll learn much quicker.
Go out to a bookstore NOW. Ask more questions, sure, but read a couple
of chapters first.
Nikita Lvov
Registered User #369609

thank you all
keith

[Thomas Jahns]

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Running Debian/woody......

On what exact machine type?

Post by Keith Krehbiel
How do you read a text file?

One can either use an editor (such as vi, emacs, joe, nano etc.) or a
text display tool like less. I think less is quite nice to use, but if
you want a fully graphical display, the X11 editors like kedit will
probably be easier for you.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
I have emacs and have read quite a bit of the manual but I have not
yet found the place where it tells how to get a file into the editor
to view/edit.

The emacs manual is unfortunately for people who already know a little
bit about emacs and rather want to learn how to use emacs 'right' than
be given first steps. Actually the best way for first steps in a Unix
environment is to have someone knowledgable in reach.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
How do you get install tools (apt-get, dselect or other suggestions)
to recognize files that are not on the distro cds or on the Debian
website but rather on a hard disk connected to the computer?

apt-get and co. only make available files from one of the sources listed
in /etc/apt/sources.list. If you wish to make files you put in
/some/directory available to apt-get do the following:

dpkg-scanpackages /some/directory /dev/null | gzip >/some/directory/Packages.gz

(dpkg-scanpackages is part of the dpkg-dev package which might need to
install first) then add a line like this to /etc/apt/sources.list:

deb file:/some/directory/ ./

Finally issue "apt-get update" and the packages in /some/directory will be
available.

But if you simply want to install package /some/directory/xyz.deb you
could just as well issue 'dpkg -i /some/directory/xyz.deb' to install it
that one time.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Many of the files mentioned in posts here and other places seem to be
text files. Some seem to be lists of parameters and others possibly
shell scripts. Is it possible to really screw things up by changing
them? (provided one can get them into an editor to change them)
Often advice is given to 'simply' change file 'x' to read 'y'. How do
you do that?

The files meant to be changed by the administrator (you) are mostly
/etc.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is it possible to override default directorie(s) by giving an entire
pathlist?

You mean the search path for binaries? Like when you type ls, /bin/ls
gets executed? If you want to have /some/otherbin/prog to be executed
when you type 'prog' you need to add /some/otherbin to your PATH
variable. You need to tell us what shell you use to tell you how to set
PATH.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Somewhere I read that the filesystem does not necessarily describe a
single drive or device but can be spread over several devices. How
can you tell what you have in the way of files/devices/etc.?

Every active disk partition, floppy/CD drive or other data storage is
'mounted' by the mount utility to some path in the filesystem. Invoking
mount without any arguments will tell what is mounted where:

***@mercury:~ > mount
/dev/hda5 on / type xfs (rw)
proc on /proc type proc (rw)
sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw)
devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,gid=5,mode=620)
tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw)
/dev/hda7 on /usr type xfs (rw,nodev,noatime)
/dev/hda9 on /var type xfs (rw,nosuid)
/dev/hda10 on /tmp type xfs (rw,nosuid,nodev)
/dev/hda13 on /transfer type vfat (rw,noexec,uid=1000,gid=1000,fmask=133,dmask=022)
/dev/hda8 on /usr/local/share/bind-chroot type xfs (rw,nosuid)
/dev/hda11 on /home type xfs (rw,nosuid,nodev)
/dev/hda14 on /scratch type xfs (rw,nosuid,nodev)
none on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw)
automount(pid2528) on /hosts type autofs (rw,fd=4,pgrp=2528,minproto=2,maxproto=4)
automount(pid2588) on /media/usb type autofs (rw,fd=4,pgrp=2588,minproto=2,maxproto=4)

To mount another disk like the second partition on the primary slave IDE
drive to directory /mnt you would use something like:

mount /dev/hdb2 /mnt

This assumes /dev/hdb2 contains a valid formatted filesystem. If you
want to know which partitions your linux has recognized you could do
this:

cat /proc/partitions
major minor #blocks name

3 0 156290904 hda
3 1 112423 hda1
3 2 8032 hda2
3 3 1 hda3
3 5 361431 hda5
3 6 530113 hda6
3 7 26218048 hda7
3 8 48163 hda8
3 9 6658911 hda9
3 10 3068383 hda10
3 11 43005973 hda11
3 12 16571016 hda12
3 13 5446003 hda13
3 14 54259506 hda14

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Ls seems to be pretty good at listing directories but doesn't seem to
want to list files. Is that normal?

Please elaborate. ls -l /some/fileOrDir will give detailed information
about any file or directory on the system if that's what you want.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Is it possible to install and run a Debian system without a
network/internet connection?

Of course it is.

Post by Keith Krehbiel
What GUI should work with Debian? I have what I think is a copy of
XFree86. Can this be made to work?

That depends on wether there is a driver for your particular graphics
hardware (that's a yes in most cases).

Post by Keith Krehbiel
Thanks for your patience. I know all these things should be obvious
but they are not for me.

You really should follow the advice others have given you to read a good
book on Linux. And actually nothing of this is obvious before one has
accumulated had a good amount of experience with Linux/Unix. But that is
the same for any powerful piece of software.

Thomas Jahns