what Linux is best for a PPC7300 with a Sonnet G3 card and a MacPicasso540?

[Frank O. Fackelmayer]

Hi all,
I want to try Linux on my "old" Powermac 7300 (originally 7300/200),
which now has a Sonnet G3 card (340MHz), 192MB of RAM and a MP540
graphic card.
I tried YDL 3.01, but - although it ran well on the Mac when I bypass
the graphic card and use on-board graphics only - I was not able to run
it with the MP540. It its fine in text mode, but the X server does not
perform well (wrong colors with lot of purple, I guess its a screen sync
problem but find no way around it)

Is there a Linux distribution that you can recommend, and that works
with the MacPicasso card?


Frank

[Thomas Jahns]

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
I want to try Linux on my "old" Powermac 7300 (originally 7300/200),
which now has a Sonnet G3 card (340MHz), 192MB of RAM and a MP540
graphic card.
I tried YDL 3.01, but - although it ran well on the Mac when I bypass
the graphic card and use on-board graphics only - I was not able to
run it with the MP540. It its fine in text mode, but the X server does
not perform well (wrong colors with lot of purple, I guess its a
screen sync problem but find no way around it)

There are actually three support aspects to graphics in Linux on the
Macintosh platform: support through open firmware (which you get if you
pass video=ofonly on boot), support via a specific framebuffer driver
(which as you experienced works for controlfb as used in PowerMac 7x00
and 8x00) and support for X11 with either frame buffer interface (fbdev
driver) or a chipset-specific driver.

So for X11 you will need to find out what chipset the MP540 uses, lspci
should help there. I'm not completely sure from your above posting which
piece of hardware is showing the wrong colors, MP540 or the builtin
control graphics? If the builtin graphics show wrong colors that might
be related to the G3 card, there have been reports of G3 cards that make
the onboard graphics completely unusable. If the MP540 is showing wrong
colors you might consider looking for an updated graphics driver, that
would be an updated xfree86 rpm from YDL.

Have you tried to boot with video=ofonly and the MP540? Are you using
BootX? Have you looked into the XF86Config used? Which driver is
configured in 'Section "Device"'?

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
Is there a Linux distribution that you can recommend, and that works
with the MacPicasso card?

I always recommend Debian ;-), but for someone getting started with
Linux, YDL is probably the better choice.

Thomas Jahns

[Frank O. Fackelmayer]

Post by Thomas Jahns
There are actually three support aspects to graphics in Linux on the
Macintosh platform: support through open firmware (which you get if you
pass video=ofonly on boot), support via a specific framebuffer driver
(which as you experienced works for controlfb as used in PowerMac 7x00
and 8x00) and support for X11 with either frame buffer interface (fbdev
driver) or a chipset-specific driver.
So for X11 you will need to find out what chipset the MP540 uses, lspci
should help there. I'm not completely sure from your above posting which
piece of hardware is showing the wrong colors, MP540 or the builtin
control graphics?

it is the MP that is problematic, showing wrong colors and distorted
display; the builtin is ok. Ok, i could then simply switch to builtin,
but my Mac also runs Os9 (not for sentimental reasons, but to drive my
PersonalLaserwriter over the local network and access it from my OsX
iMac), I do not want to do that in the first place. It is simply a
matter of bequemlichkeit to not change the monitor connector each time I
want to use Linux...

Post by Thomas Jahns
If the builtin graphics show wrong colors that might
be related to the G3 card, there have been reports of G3 cards that make
the onboard graphics completely unusable. If the MP540 is showing wrong
colors you might consider looking for an updated graphics driver, that
would be an updated xfree86 rpm from YDL.

ok, I'll try that

Post by Thomas Jahns
Have you tried to boot with video=ofonly and the MP540?

no, not yet. What does this do?

Post by Thomas Jahns
Are you using
BootX?

yes, I understood that is the only way to boot Linux on the oldworld Mac
and keep Os9.

Post by Thomas Jahns
Have you looked into the XF86Config used? Which driver is
configured in 'Section "Device"'?

I did look there, but I am not so much into Linux that I understand the
config file...

Post by Thomas Jahns

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
Is there a Linux distribution that you can recommend, and that works
with the MacPicasso card?

I always recommend Debian ;-),

could you elaborate why?

Post by Thomas Jahns
but for someone getting started with
Linux, YDL is probably the better choice.

I actually have downloaded the Debian "woody" CD isos now, so I'll try
to install that and see what happens. Are these more up to date than
YDL3 (e.g. have more graphic card drivers)? Is it possible to say which
one will run faster on my old hardware, Debian or YDL?
I'm sure I get back here with a bunch of questions.

Frank

[Frank O. Fackelmayer]

Post by Thomas Jahns
I always recommend Debian ;-), but for someone getting started with
Linux, YDL is probably the better choice.

ok, Debian is up and running. Although I have not configured it to perfection
yet (i guess it will require a lot of reading), I do get a decent display from
the MP540 card. However, the colors are again ugly, very much like the problem I
had in YDL. It sounds it is the same problem ("solarized" colors) discussed in

http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2002/04/msg00525.html

so I'm not the only one and think it is not a problem of my MP540 graphics card.

Where can I find information about the colormap, and how to tweak it to get the
colors right? I only get the display "right" (undistorted, but with the ugly
colors) in 16bit color.

Frank

[I R A Darth Aggie]

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:43:10 +0200,

+ had in YDL. It sounds it is the same problem ("solarized" colors) discussed in
+
+ http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2002/04/msg00525.html
+
+ so I'm not the only one and think it is not a problem of my MP540 graphics card.

You need to use 15 bit color depth. I had the same problem.

That did it, thanks!

I've seen strangeness in certain graphics cards at 16 bit.

James

[Frank O. Fackelmayer]

Post by I R A Darth Aggie
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:43:10 +0200,

+ had in YDL. It sounds it is the same problem ("solarized" colors) discussed in
+
+ http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2002/04/msg00525.html
+
+ so I'm not the only one and think it is not a problem of my MP540 graphics card.

You need to use 15 bit color depth. I had the same problem.

That did it, thanks!

I've seen strangeness in certain graphics cards at 16 bit.

Hi James,
Sure I did read the thread :-) But as I am really new to Linux, I
actually do not (yet) know how to set the color depth to 15 bit... From
within KDE in Debian I did not find something like a "monitors" or
"display" utility/control panel where I can set this. I think I remember
I did see one in YDL when I tried that some time back.
Also, I cannot get back from KDE to the command line (I guess i could
set it in a config file manually). Only log out to this Gnome login
window, but then no way to get out. I am quite sure it is only a single
keystroke or the like, but in any case it is not intuitive.


Frank

[Thomas Jahns]

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
Sure I did read the thread :-) But as I am really new to Linux, I
actually do not (yet) know how to set the color depth to 15
bit... From within KDE in Debian I did not find something like a
"monitors" or "display" utility/control panel where I can set this. I
think I remember I did see one in YDL when I tried that some time back.
Also, I cannot get back from KDE to the command line (I guess i could
set it in a config file manually). Only log out to this Gnome login
window, but then no way to get out. I am quite sure it is only a
single keystroke or the like, but in any case it is not intuitive.

You need to issue

dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86

as root to change the /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file.

Of course above file can also be edited manually, but unless you need to
make unusual changes (e.g. uncommon input devices), the debconf
interface is recommended.

Thomas Jahns

[Frank O. Fackelmayer]

ok, I got it right. 15bit color depth is working, and the display
appearance is fine now. I tried it both in Debian (after Thomas
recommended that distro) and YDL, and it is ok for both. Thanks a lot.

I installed Debian first, and after it worked I set up YDL to see if the
15bit thing fixes the problem in YDL, too. So, now I was able to compare
both distros on a "first sight" basis. YDL took much longer to install
(and installed much more), and the install process was much nicer to
look at :-)
HOWEVER, Debian felt way "snappier" when I explored the KDE menus and
stuff, which was contrary to what I expected. Well, I think I'll set up
Debian again. If only there was an easy explanantion/walktrough on how
to upgrade over the net to get the most recent stuff, eg. a new Mozilla.

One more problem came up, and it is reproducible in both distros. It is
about networking and I'll open a new thread for this one...

Frank

[Thomas Jahns]

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
ok, I got it right. 15bit color depth is working, and the display
appearance is fine now. I tried it both in Debian (after Thomas
recommended that distro) and YDL, and it is ok for both. Thanks a lot.
I installed Debian first, and after it worked I set up YDL to see if
the 15bit thing fixes the problem in YDL, too. So, now I was able to
compare both distros on a "first sight" basis. YDL took much longer to
install (and installed much more), and the install process was much
nicer to look at :-)
HOWEVER, Debian felt way "snappier" when I explored the KDE menus and
stuff, which was contrary to what I expected. Well, I think I'll set
up Debian again. If only there was an easy explanantion/walktrough on
how to upgrade over the net to get the most recent stuff, eg. a new
Mozilla.

Since I have this feeling you understand German ;-), an article in Linux
Magazin 11/2002 might be just right for you:

http://www.linux-magazin.de/Artikel/ausgabe/2002/11/apt/apt.html

Otherwise it depends on what you want:

- The current stable distribution Woody is relatively old but still gets
regular security updates.

- Sarge is the destined successor to Woody, but currently is only
updated with up to two weeks of delay.

- Sid ("Still in Development") is what is currently worked on and that
means if you want to use it you better know how to edit system files
in your sleep and fix bugs in the packages.

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
One more problem came up, and it is reproducible in both distros. It
is about networking and I'll open a new thread for this one...

Is the builtin ethernet producing late collisions? I had that problem on
a 10/100 switch and could only "solve" it by installing a 100MBit
Realtek card (which also works in MacOS).

Thomas Jahns

[Frank O. Fackelmayer]

Post by Thomas Jahns

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
If only there was an easy explanantion/walktrough on
how to upgrade over the net to get the most recent stuff, eg. a new
Mozilla.

Since I have this feeling you understand German ;-), an article in Linux
http://www.linux-magazin.de/Artikel/ausgabe/2002/11/apt/apt.html

oh, Dankeschön.
First I have to fix my networking problem, though :-)

Post by Thomas Jahns
- The current stable distribution Woody is relatively old but still gets
regular security updates.
- Sarge is the destined successor to Woody, but currently is only
updated with up to two weeks of delay.
- Sid ("Still in Development") is what is currently worked on and that
means if you want to use it you better know how to edit system files
in your sleep and fix bugs in the packages.

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
One more problem came up, and it is reproducible in both distros. It
is about networking and I'll open a new thread for this one...

Is the builtin ethernet producing late collisions? I had that problem on
a 10/100 switch and could only "solve" it by installing a 100MBit
Realtek card (which also works in MacOS).

oh well, I could try that. Do you mean something like:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18553&item=5726456551&rd=1



Frank

[Thomas Jahns]

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18553&item=5726456551&rd=1

Yes, that's the type, but you can get them cheaper and quicker from
e.g. Schiwi (U-Hudtwalckerstraße). Just ask for a NIC with Realtek 8139C
or 8139D chip. Cost me around EUR 4,- last time I bought one. And for
MacOS you will need to get the drivers from www.realtek.com.tw (IIRC).

Thomas Jahns

[Frank O. Fackelmayer]

Post by Thomas Jahns

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18553&item=5726456551&rd=1

Yes, that's the type, but you can get them cheaper and quicker from
e.g. Schiwi (U-Hudtwalckerstraße). Just ask for a NIC with Realtek 8139C
or 8139D chip. Cost me around EUR 4,- last time I bought one. And for
MacOS you will need to get the drivers from www.realtek.com.tw (IIRC).

[x] bought
[x] installed
[x] works on MacOs9 and Debian


Thanks,
Frank

[I R A Darth Aggie]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:22:35 +0200,

+ HOWEVER, Debian felt way "snappier" when I explored the KDE menus and
+ stuff, which was contrary to what I expected. Well, I think I'll set up
+ Debian again. If only there was an easy explanantion/walktrough on how
+ to upgrade over the net to get the most recent stuff, eg. a new Mozilla.

The tricky part is getting your /etc/apt/sources.list file squared.
Once that's set, and you want to upgrade, you merely have to say (note
the root # prompt):

# apt-get update
# apt-get dist-upgrade

If it's a full dist-upgrade from, say, woody to sarge or sid, then
it'll be a while and some bandwidth.

James

[fudo]

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
Also, I cannot get back from KDE to the command line (I guess i could
set it in a config file manually). Only log out to this Gnome login
window, but then no way to get out. I am quite sure it is only a single
keystroke or the like, but in any case it is not intuitive.

ISTR that alt-F7 gets you back to console from X-windows, but I can't
find anything in a brief look through documentation, and I don't have a
running Linux install at the moment...

[fudo]

Post by Frank O. Fackelmayer
Also, I cannot get back from KDE to the command line (I guess i could
set it in a config file manually). Only log out to this Gnome login
window, but then no way to get out. I am quite sure it is only a single
keystroke or the like, but in any case it is not intuitive.

I remembered wrong: control-alt-F1 gets from W-windows to CLI.

Ubuntu now up on my Lombard. :)