IceApe/IceWeael stability problems - What did I mess up?

[Michael and Nicole Freeman]

Hi!

I'm a Linux newbie. I installed Linux (Debian Etch) on my old 350MHz G3
slot-load iMac because OS 9 software was getting too outdated to be
really useful anymore, but I didn't want to shell out the cash for OS X
only to risk my system not being quite up to running it. I've really
come to enjoy and appreciate Linux (aside from a couple things - support
for newer Flash files and the ability to check the ink levels and clean
the heads on my Epson 777 printer).

One thing I did wrong, I discovered after about a month of use, was
that when I installed Linux and re-installed OS 9 (still had a couple
Apps I want to run there), I evenly split my stock 7Gb Hard Drive into
two ~3.5Gb partitions. I quickly ran out of room on Linux, and after
uninstalling unneeded OS 9 software had more than enough space there.
The only way I could get the extra space moved over to the Linux
partition was to completely re-partition and re-install. I could shrink
the MacOS partition, but couldn't increase the size of the Linux
partition for some reason.

I wanted to save all the files and settings I had accumulated on Linux,
and not understanding the consequences of doing this, I just backed up
all the files in my user account Home folder (including hidden files). I
re-partitioned and re-installed, got all my software back in place, and
copied the files back over to my Home folder - but I was in my root
account :(. Everything in that folder was overwritten but the owner was
set to root. It of course wouldn't log into my user account. I did a
chown command on the entire folder, and that seemed to have solved the
problem, until I ran IceApe and IceWeasel. They crash a *lot* now.
Sometimes a specific site crashes it right away. Other times a site will
load, but crash when I try to scroll down the page. This doesn't happen
in Epiphany - it's very stable, but I don't like Epiphany as well as the
others. Also, IceApe's HTML Composer won't load at all, which is new, too.

I've tried completely removing both pieces of software, including
deleting any and all Mozilla/IceApe/IceWeasel-related files in my Home
folder. But, when I re-install them, the problem returns. Any
suggestions? Remember, I'm a newbie coming from the heavily GUI'd MacOS,
so go easy on me! :) Thanks!

Mike Freeman
mike [at] freeman-studio [dot] com

[Roger Leigh]

I've really come to enjoy and appreciate Linux (aside from a
couple things - support for newer Flash files and the ability to check
the ink levels and clean the heads on my Epson 777 printer).

For the latter, did you try escputil?

One thing I did wrong, I discovered after about a month of
use, was that when I installed Linux and re-installed OS 9 (still had
a couple Apps I want to run there), I evenly split my stock 7Gb Hard
Drive into two ~3.5Gb partitions. I quickly ran out of room on Linux,
and after uninstalling unneeded OS 9 software had more than enough
space there. The only way I could get the extra space moved over to
the Linux partition was to completely re-partition and re-install. I
could shrink the MacOS partition, but couldn't increase the size of
the Linux partition for some reason.

The Linux Logical Volume Manager (LVM) can be useful here. You can
shrink and extend logical volumes (LVs) and the filesystems which they
contain.

I wanted to save all the files and settings I had accumulated
on Linux, and not understanding the consequences of doing this, I just
backed up all the files in my user account Home folder (including
hidden files). I re-partitioned and re-installed, got all my software
back in place, and copied the files back over to my Home folder - but
I was in my root account :(. Everything in that folder was overwritten
but the owner was set to root. It of course wouldn't log into my user
account. I did a chown command on the entire folder, and that seemed
to have solved the problem, until I ran IceApe and IceWeasel. They
crash a *lot* now. Sometimes a specific site crashes it right
away. Other times a site will load, but crash when I try to scroll
down the page. This doesn't happen in Epiphany - it's very stable, but
I don't like Epiphany as well as the others. Also, IceApe's HTML
Composer won't load at all, which is new, too.
I've tried completely removing both pieces of software,
including deleting any and all Mozilla/IceApe/IceWeasel-related files
in my Home folder. But, when I re-install them, the problem
returns. Any suggestions? Remember, I'm a newbie coming from the
heavily GUI'd MacOS, so go easy on me! :) Thanks!

In this case, I would "rm -rf" any dotfiles in your home directory to
do with Mozilla et. al.. Also, as root, run "chown -R user:group
/home/user" to make sure every file in your home is owned by you.


Regards,
Roger

[B'ichela]

Post by Roger Leigh
The Linux Logical Volume Manager (LVM) can be useful here. You can
shrink and extend logical volumes (LVs) and the filesystems which they
contain.

How does that work? I have heard of it but never used it here
at pinkrose.dhis.org

Post by Roger Leigh
In this case, I would "rm -rf" any dotfiles in your home directory to
do with Mozilla et. al.. Also, as root, run "chown -R user:group
/home/user" to make sure every file in your home is owned by you.

DANGER AHEAD! DANGER AHEAD! DANGER AHEAD!
by VERY careful with rm -rf! Especially if you are a
beginner! best way to do it without shooting oneself in the crotch is
to use midnight commander (mc) in command line mode and tag the
offending .directories But... if you REALLY want to.. best way is this
line
rm -rfi .*
which means ask me to confirm erasure of all files/directories, one at
a time. starting with a '.' meaning if there is one you DON't want
zapped you call tell it NOT to zap it. This is a very good idea
especially if you forget you are in root mode or accidently are in the
wrong directory, it happens even to the best of us. I got bitten by
this too and I have used Linux since 1997.

[Anton Ertl]

Post by B'ichela
by VERY careful with rm -rf! Especially if you are a
beginner! best way to do it without shooting oneself in the crotch is
to use midnight commander (mc) in command line mode and tag the
offending .directories But... if you REALLY want to.. best way is this
line
rm -rfi .*
which means ask me to confirm erasure of all files/directories, one at
a time.

Any difference from "rm -ri .*"?

Anyway, I find the -i flag pretty annoying, so what I do instead is to
write

echo rm -rf .*

If the expansion is to my liking, I repeat the command without echo,
otherwise I copy and edit it's output.

- anton

[tortoise]

Post by Michael and Nicole Freeman
Hi!
I'm a Linux newbie. I installed Linux (Debian Etch) on my old 350MHz G3
slot-load iMac because OS 9 software was getting too outdated to be
really useful anymore, but I didn't want to shell out the cash for OS X
only to risk my system not being quite up to running it. I've really
come to enjoy and appreciate Linux (aside from a couple things - support
for newer Flash files and the ability to check the ink levels and clean
the heads on my Epson 777 printer).
One thing I did wrong, I discovered after about a month of use, was
that when I installed Linux and re-installed OS 9 (still had a couple
Apps I want to run there), I evenly split my stock 7Gb Hard Drive into
two ~3.5Gb partitions. I quickly ran out of room on Linux, and after
uninstalling unneeded OS 9 software had more than enough space there.
The only way I could get the extra space moved over to the Linux
partition was to completely re-partition and re-install. I could shrink
the MacOS partition, but couldn't increase the size of the Linux
partition for some reason.

it may be a good idea to create an extra linux partition (or two).
such as home, var, usr/local. you can also symlink back in things
you copy.

i have or think I have increased linux partition sizes, however
just today i hit a place where I couldn't. It could be a bug in
parted,
there have been bugs in it before. this too was in Debian-etch, on
an old g3.

anyway, i have seen lvm but so far I have been ok without it. right
now i have a mess and probably the best thing for me to do is
to back up and reformat the drive. I don't want to if I can avoid it.

Post by Michael and Nicole Freeman
I wanted to save all the files and settings I had accumulated on Linux,
and not understanding the consequences of doing this, I just backed up
all the files in my user account Home folder (including hidden files). I
re-partitioned and re-installed, got all my software back in place, and
copied the files back over to my Home folder - but I was in my root
account :(. Everything in that folder was overwritten but the owner was
set to root. It of course wouldn't log into my user account. I did a
chown command on the entire folder, and that seemed to have solved the
problem, until I ran IceApe and IceWeasel. They crash a *lot* now.
Sometimes a specific site crashes it right away. Other times a site will
load, but crash when I try to scroll down the page. This doesn't happen
in Epiphany - it's very stable, but I don't like Epiphany as well as the
others. Also, IceApe's HTML Composer won't load at all, which is new, too.
I've tried completely removing both pieces of software, including
deleting any and all Mozilla/IceApe/IceWeasel-related files in my Home
folder. But, when I re-install them, the problem returns. Any
suggestions? Remember, I'm a newbie coming from the heavily GUI'd MacOS,
so go easy on me! :) Thanks!

you could try creating a new user account and running iceweasel from
that before you copy anything over. then copy your files selectively.
i actually have two accounts for myself, i can set up alternative
environments and also i can use one for more serious projects
and one for more fun, or experimenting. I use the root account
too much. you have to use it more in linux but not as much as I do.

personally I would reccomend at least 4 partitions for those people
who double boot with old computers especially. leaving the last
1/4 or third of the disk for extra space if possible because it
is slower, and linux uses the disk a lot. using an external drive
for backup as well.

Post by Michael and Nicole Freeman
Mike Freeman
mike [at] freeman-studio [dot] com

[Michael and Nicole Freeman]

Hi again,

Just an update, I've tries all of those suggestions now (rm-ing the
files, chown which I had done before, and even creating a new user
account). All of these still result in all of my Mozilla-based browsers
crashing very often. What surprises me is that even under the completely
fresh, new user account Iceweasel and IceApe still crash. And while I
haven't seen it yet, my wife says that she has had Epiphany crash on her
quite a bit, as well. Other software seems fairly stable (I've had an
odd random crash or two, but it's extremely rare).

So, it's not a user account issue, but something else. Does anyone have
any ideas what to try, as I haven't got any more ideas.

Mike Freeman
mike [at] freeman-studio [dot] com

[Michael and Nicole Freeman]

An addition to my last update...

My root account works fine and doesn't exhibit this problem at all.
However, any user accounts I create do have this problem. Also, one
crash that I can recreate consistently is trying to run IceApe's
composer. Only the root account runs it fine. User accounts try to run
it, but stop even before a window comes up.

Mike Freeman
mike [at] freeman-studio [dot] com

Post by Michael and Nicole Freeman
Hi again,
Just an update, I've tries all of those suggestions now (rm-ing the
files, chown which I had done before, and even creating a new user
account). All of these still result in all of my Mozilla-based browsers
crashing very often. What surprises me is that even under the completely
fresh, new user account Iceweasel and IceApe still crash. And while I
haven't seen it yet, my wife says that she has had Epiphany crash on her
quite a bit, as well. Other software seems fairly stable (I've had an
odd random crash or two, but it's extremely rare).
So, it's not a user account issue, but something else. Does anyone
have any ideas what to try, as I haven't got any more ideas.
Mike Freeman
mike [at] freeman-studio [dot] com

[Michael and Nicole Freeman]

Another update...

When I run Iceweasel or Iceape from a terminal instead of the desktop,
the crashes register as segmentation faults in the terminal.

So, to recap, Iceweasel and Iceape both crash with a segmentation fault
extremely often and for no apparent reason that I can see. I thought it
was my poor handling of backing up and restoring files when I
re-installed my Linux PPC system, but now I'm not so sure. This problem
only happens with user accounts (even a fresh new one). When logged into
root, they are both very stable.

Any help would be appreciated here. Thanks!

Mike Freeman
mike [at] freeman-studio [dot] com