Discussion:
X86 or PowerPc
(too old to reply)
VP
2004-10-06 00:52:45 UTC
Permalink
I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
 a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).

 VP
NeoAmsterdam
2004-10-06 01:50:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by VP
I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
 a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
 VP
I know you've gotten your response in c.o.l.hardware, but as a Mac user
I'll ask you to make your discussion based on what you use now. I'll
just throw to pennies in your direction...

(1) Migrating to ppc is a pain for most x86 users because ppc hardware
is quite different from "standard" PC hardware.

(2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill
-- ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian, et
al... We don't even have Fedora! On the other hand, we've got Yellow
Dog and Darwin.

To sum it up, and heresy be damned - Unless you need to develop for ppc
Linux, stick with an x86 box.
Jon Cortelyou
2004-10-06 01:53:13 UTC
Permalink
But you totally disregarding the 'coolness' factor of running Linux on Mac
hardware. ;-)
Post by NeoAmsterdam
Post by VP
I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
VP
I know you've gotten your response in c.o.l.hardware, but as a Mac user
I'll ask you to make your discussion based on what you use now. I'll just
throw to pennies in your direction...
(1) Migrating to ppc is a pain for most x86 users because ppc hardware is
quite different from "standard" PC hardware.
(2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill --
ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian, et al... We
don't even have Fedora! On the other hand, we've got Yellow Dog and
Darwin.
To sum it up, and heresy be damned - Unless you need to develop for ppc
Linux, stick with an x86 box.
NeoAmsterdam
2004-10-06 02:57:53 UTC
Permalink
On 2004-10-05 21:53:13 -0400, "Jon Cortelyou"
Post by Jon Cortelyou
But you totally disregarding the 'coolness' factor of running Linux on
Mac hardware. ;-)
I *have* to mention that? I thought is was common knowledge!
I'd note that there's something very wrong when the UI doesn't match
the svelte of my TiBook. I just don't need another "I switched to Mac
and couldn't do anything" user.

There's only *ONE* ppc-Linux machine that everyone should get if money
weren't an object:
<http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/linux/power/about.html>
Pascal Bourguignon
2004-10-06 03:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by NeoAmsterdam
On 2004-10-05 21:53:13 -0400, "Jon Cortelyou"
Post by Jon Cortelyou
But you totally disregarding the 'coolness' factor of running Linux
on Mac hardware. ;-)
I *have* to mention that? I thought is was common knowledge!
I'd note that there's something very wrong when the UI doesn't match
the svelte of my TiBook. I just don't need another "I switched to Mac
and couldn't do anything" user.
There's only *ONE* ppc-Linux machine that everyone should get if money
<http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/linux/power/about.html>
Ah! Yes, if you hadn't to ask the price... (How do you do a salivating
Homer smiley?)
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

To vote Democrat or Republican, it's like changing of cabin in the Titanic.
Pascal Bourguignon
2004-10-06 03:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Cortelyou
But you totally disregarding the 'coolness' factor of running Linux on Mac
hardware. ;-)
If the Mac hardware is given, then yes it's cool to make it usable
with linux.

But if you are to buy new hardware it's silly. There's no specs and
no drivers for some devices integrated into Apple hardware, and other
PPC motherboards look way too expensive. And about performace, I'm
yet to see a PPC system compiling faster than AMD / PC system...
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

To vote Democrat or Republican, it's like changing of cabin in the Titanic.
NeoAmsterdam
2004-10-06 03:51:25 UTC
Permalink
There's no specs and no drivers for some devices integrated into Apple
hardware...
Glad you mention Linux's Achilles heel. Drives are a pain in the royal
ass regardless of platform. The only distribution that is
comprehensive for Apple PPCs is Darwin, and I really don't know of
anyone (besides myself) who uses it regularly.
...and other PPC motherboards look way too expensive.
[From related post]
Post by NeoAmsterdam
There's only *ONE* ppc-Linux machine that everyone should get if money
<http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/linux/power/about.html>
Ah! Yes, if you hadn't to ask the price... (How do you do a salivating
Homer smiley?)
I don't know, maybe ":-P;" ? But I'd take a Power5 over an Xserve any
day of the week.

[Returning to original post and topic]
But if you are to buy new hardware it's silly.
I couldn't agree more - Especially if you already know the intricacies
of one platform over another, because you'd lose time and patience
trying to familiarize yourself with new hardware.
And about performace, I'm yet to see a PPC system compiling faster than
AMD / PC system...
Depends on what you're compiling, running, ad nauseum... I'm sure this
has already been addressed somewhere.

So in conclusion, even though I've been a Mac user since the days of
System 6.0.7, my advice is this: If you know x86, use x86.
Keith Keller
2004-10-06 05:46:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by NeoAmsterdam
(1) Migrating to ppc is a pain for most x86 users because ppc hardware
is quite different from "standard" PC hardware.
It's not all that different, really. The primary stumbling block,
for me, at least, was booting the OS--getting quik to boot my OldWorld
box was a horrible nightmare. Configuring yaboot was easier, but
not always consistent. But the hardware was pretty easy to deal with.
The most difficult part is determining which kernel options correspond
to which hardware.
Post by NeoAmsterdam
(2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill
-- ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian, et
al... We don't even have Fedora! On the other hand, we've got Yellow
Dog and Darwin.
Does Darwin count as a linux?

It's true that there are significantly fewer linux-ppc distros
available. YDL is still generally behind the corresponding RH/Fedora
release. If you're familiar with Debian then they have a ppc port,
but if you're familiar with Debian why bother with ppc hardware?

One other consideration: if the OP needs a ''user-friendly'' OS
to dual-boot with while learning linux, certainly the OS available
on ppc is much better than that for x86. :)

- --keith

- --
kkeller-***@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom
Pascal Bourguignon
2004-10-06 17:23:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith Keller
Does Darwin count as a linux?
No. Darwin counts as 4.4 BSD on a Mach kernel.
Linux counts as a GNU on a Linux kernel.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

To vote Democrat or Republican, it's like changing of cabin in the Titanic.
I R A Darth Aggie
2004-10-12 12:26:54 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:50:09 GMT,
+ (2) Linux "support" is like hyenas waiting for the scraps after a kill
+ -- ppc ports come way too late when compared to Red Hat, Debian,
Ummm...I suspect that the Debian PPC folks would be surprised to hear
that...

James
--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.
Jari Oksanen
2004-10-06 09:49:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by VP
I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
I bought an iBook G4 for a Linux machine. That was a mistake. Linux
installs there, it runs, even X works, but still it is crippled for the
use I need it or as a lecture folder: no dual display to projector, no
WiFi. However, I have learnt to live with MacOS X. It does have a bash
shell, you can get real GNU Emacs (not the no-X version that comes with
Mac), LaTeX environment is even better than in Linux, most free software
I use works similarly, pdf slides that I make in Linux look great in
Mac. Normally I don't boot to Linux, but I'll give Yellow Dog still one
chance before removing all traces of Linux and liberating some hard disk
for MacOS X. In general, the Mac environment can be made so similar to
Linux that I can usually continue my Linux work in Mac while travelling,
and even feel cosy (bash! emacs!). However, it is better to stick to x86
if you want to have a Linux box.

cheers, jari oksanen
--
Jari Oksanen -- Oulu, Finland
Michel Klijmij
2004-10-06 11:46:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by VP
I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
 a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
Well, on a new Mac you get OS X which is as good as Linux anyway. Linux on
PPC is a bit troublesome, as mentioned. Mainly, it's way behind the x86
equivalents. On the other hand, recently the Fedora-based Yellow Dog and
Debian based Ubuntu came out, and they're two excellent and up to date
distributions.
--
Kind regards,

Michel Klijmij
ICQ/MSN in headers http://michel.klijmij.net/
Ludovic De Grave
2005-03-28 21:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Ok I'have a Athlon XP 2500 + Barton with XP, and linux Fedora Core 2 on
seconde boot point ... It's great ...

But I just bought a pegasos II machine to try the MorphOS system and the
YellowDogLinux system. I installed them perfectly and they are working fine
too ...

For the moment. I don't have any problem to tell that all the architectures
are good anough for linux ... but it depends of the money you will spend to
...

PC is really cheaper than a ppc machine .... that the only negative point I
can see on the board ...

so ....
Post by VP
I'm going to buy a new computer.What is the best for Linux
a AthlonXP 3000+ or a PowerPC (PowerMac G4 or pegasos).
VP
Larry Anderson
2005-03-28 14:56:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ludovic De Grave
PC is really cheaper than a ppc machine .... that the only negative point
I can see on the board ...\
Not every PPC machine is a cakewalk to install. I seem to have a lousy time
finding Video drivers (or the proper configuration) for many older
Macintosh Models/monitors and sound is an issue on some as well. (though I
have better luck on X86, I am currently suffering with an audio problem
there, but community support for my ills seems a lot better). On the MacOS
side don't expect to plug in ANY drive or gizmo in and expect to get it to
work either (i.e. DVD recorders, etc.)
Piper
No parallel or serial ports the Macs either, limits the stuff you can plug
into your machine.

If you don't have an overwhelming desire o dual boot OSX or run PPC based
code I think X86 would save you a bit of grief and frustration.

Reading on forums and such many of the Unix/Linux crowd have moved to Mac OS
X because it's just as Unixy with all the support of a commercial OS and
using utilities such as Fink they port over the PPC Linux stuff they
desire. So I (IMHO) would do OSX on PPC and if I was going "straight
Linux", I'd go the X86 route and avoid the PPC schizophrenia.

Larry
--
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Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k
Set your 8-bit rigs to sail for http://www.portcommodore.com/
01010001 01010101 01000001 01001100 01001001 01010100 01011001
Keith Keller
2005-03-29 05:04:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Anderson
Not every PPC machine is a cakewalk to install. I seem to have a lousy time
finding Video drivers (or the proper configuration) for many older
Macintosh Models/monitors and sound is an issue on some as well.
The OP was looking to buy a new computer, so getting linux/ppc to
work on older Apple hardware isn't an issue. Of course getting linux
onto an older Apple is going to be more difficult--not all of the
hardware specs were open, booting the older Open Firmwares was a
Nightmare of Depravity (TM), and newer linux distros, reasonably
enough, focus on newer hardware.
Post by Larry Anderson
No parallel or serial ports the Macs either, limits the stuff you can plug
into your machine.
If you have these devices. Most new devices nowadays are USB or
Firewire, and adapters for parallel and serial devices are readily
available (though not always cheap).
Post by Larry Anderson
Reading on forums and such many of the Unix/Linux crowd have moved to Mac OS
X because it's just as Unixy with all the support of a commercial OS and
using utilities such as Fink they port over the PPC Linux stuff they
desire. So I (IMHO) would do OSX on PPC and if I was going "straight
Linux", I'd go the X86 route and avoid the PPC schizophrenia.
It is hardly split-personality. OS X can be such a dog compared to
linux/ppc. I run linux on my iBook, and it is sluggish a lot less
often than OS X used to be. It even behaves reasonably well with
OS X running in Mac-on-Linux (though don't expect miracles).

And let's not use the ''commercial support'' argument! By that
argument, you'd be running Windows on your x86 hardware. Or Solaris.

--keith
--
kkeller-***@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom
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