Linux install causes OS 9 to disappear.

[Pater Patriae]

Hi everybody! I've been working the last 2 days on installing Ubuntu
on my 300 mHz iBook. I followed the manual and my linux installed
perfectly, however now I'm unable to boot into OS 9. Here's what I
did:

Used Drive Setup and made 4 partitions. The first is for the
bootstrap, the second for root, the third is swap, and the fourth is
Mac OS 9. The ubuntu installation guide and yaboot man recommended
this setup. I installed Mac OS 9 and tested it (it worked) then
installed linux. I manually selected the partitions so I know
everything is in the right place, but after the install the drive seems
to have disappeared. I booted a MacOS install CD and the partition
wasn't even viewable anymore. It's still there but the (directory?)
changed? Disk First Aid can't fix anything it doesn't see. I tried
running "mac-boot" in Open Firmware without luck. Any ideas would be
helpful.

[D***@gmail.com]

Post by Pater Patriae
Hi everybody! I've been working the last 2 days on installing Ubuntu
on my 300 mHz iBook. I followed the manual and my linux installed
perfectly, however now I'm unable to boot into OS 9. Here's what I
Used Drive Setup and made 4 partitions. The first is for the
bootstrap, the second for root, the third is swap, and the fourth is
Mac OS 9. The ubuntu installation guide and yaboot man recommended
this setup. I installed Mac OS 9 and tested it (it worked) then
installed linux. I manually selected the partitions so I know
everything is in the right place, but after the install the drive seems
to have disappeared. I booted a MacOS install CD and the partition
wasn't even viewable anymore. It's still there but the (directory?)
changed? Disk First Aid can't fix anything it doesn't see. I tried
running "mac-boot" in Open Firmware without luck. Any ideas would be
helpful.

Have you tried to mount it in Ubuntu? Ubuntu includes HFS+ support.
Use the terminal and command similar to this - # being your MacOS
partition:

mkdir /mnt/hda2
mount /dev/hda# -t hfsplus -o ro /mnt/hda#

make sure your installed didn't erase it.

[Pater Patriae]

Post by D***@gmail.com

Post by Pater Patriae
Hi everybody! I've been working the last 2 days on installing Ubuntu
on my 300 mHz iBook. I followed the manual and my linux installed
perfectly, however now I'm unable to boot into OS 9. Here's what I
Used Drive Setup and made 4 partitions. The first is for the
bootstrap, the second for root, the third is swap, and the fourth is
Mac OS 9. The ubuntu installation guide and yaboot man recommended
this setup. I installed Mac OS 9 and tested it (it worked) then
installed linux. I manually selected the partitions so I know
everything is in the right place, but after the install the drive seems
to have disappeared. I booted a MacOS install CD and the partition
wasn't even viewable anymore. It's still there but the (directory?)
changed? Disk First Aid can't fix anything it doesn't see. I tried
running "mac-boot" in Open Firmware without luck. Any ideas would be
helpful.Have you tried to mount it in Ubuntu? Ubuntu includes HFS+ support.

Use the terminal and command similar to this - # being your MacOS
mkdir /mnt/hda2
mount /dev/hda# -t hfsplus -o ro /mnt/hda#
make sure your installed didn't erase it.

It's there! Phew appreciate it. I looked through all the folders, and
opened text documents and everything seems to be in decent order. I
have a problem still of not being able to boot this disk. Is there an
HFS+ utility that can check the disk? My yaboot.conf points to the
appropriate partition but only loads the white screen and then
followed by a disk with a flashing question mark.

[tortoise]

Post by Pater Patriae
have a problem still of not being able to boot this disk. Is there an
HFS+ utility that can check the disk? My yaboot.conf points to the
appropriate partition but only loads the white screen and then
followed by a disk with a flashing question mark.

in debian there is a package called hfsplus that allows you to fsck
and hfsplus disk. not knowing which kernel you are running --- this
is just a suggestion. but debian and ubuntu are closely related.

you might double check syntax in yaboot.conf and then run
ybin again, or whatever the ubuntu equivalent that writes the
boot partition.

does the option key work ? what year is this ibook, do you know
what is the open firmware version (if v3 it might be buggy).

i have used both these methods with my 2000 powerbook, in debian.

[Pater Patriae]

Post by tortoise

Post by Pater Patriae
have a problem still of not being able to boot this disk. Is there an
HFS+ utility that can check the disk? My yaboot.conf points to the
appropriate partition but only loads the white screen and then
followed by a disk with a flashing question mark.in debian there is a package called hfsplus that allows you to fsck

and hfsplus disk. not knowing which kernel you are running --- this
is just a suggestion. but debian and ubuntu are closely related.
you might double check syntax in yaboot.conf and then run
ybin again, or whatever the ubuntu equivalent that writes the
boot partition.
does the option key work ? what year is this ibook, do you know
what is the open firmware version (if v3 it might be buggy).
i have used both these methods with my 2000 powerbook, in debian.

Appreciate the response tortoise. I've been fiddling with this for a
week and am not sure what I have to do. Good thing I like this Ubuntu
or I would be concerned! Unfortunately others have to use this
computer and I need to get MacOS9 running again. Didn't know about the
hpfsck tool, Thats awesome. I do have everthing I believe correct in
yaboot.conf and ybin'd it. I know the firmware is up-to-date and the
option key does work. I'll try using hpfsck when I get home.

[tortoise]

Post by Pater Patriae
week and am not sure what I have to do. Good thing I like this Ubuntu
or I would be concerned! Unfortunately others have to use this
computer and I need to get MacOS9 running again. Didn't know about the

FYI, all:

word has it that ubuntu is cancelling support for powerpc. the most
similar
remaining distro is debian, which ubuntu forked from. although
switching
would (i think) requires a reinstall, it should be similar enough to
ubuntu that
people would not have too much of a problem, getting used to it.

although it is sometimes a pain, i have found debian helpful on older
macs that have limited resources, getting better performance with
less memory and disk space needed, than with mac os X, certainly more
than os9 for most things although i too still prefer os9 sometimes.

although i use all three, its peculiar, each seems missing something
different.

[Pater Patriae]

Hmm, that's the first I've heard of that. That be a bummer.
Discarding PowerPC support just one year after Apple switches to Intel?
Hopefully thats just myth. Linux, in general, has been so good about
supporting earlier type computers and G4's and G5's have plenty of life
in them.

Oh, btw. In case you ever need it, I made this:

HowTo check and repair HFSplus in Linux.
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1859336#post1859336

[tortoise]

Post by Pater Patriae
Hmm, that's the first I've heard of that. That be a bummer.
Discarding PowerPC support just one year after Apple switches to Intel?
Hopefully thats just myth.

it was posted on the debian-powerpc mailing a few weeks ago. by ubuntu
users i think.

Linux, in general, has been so good about

Post by Pater Patriae
supporting earlier type computers and G4's and G5's have plenty of life
in them.

Well times are hard these days. debian and ubuntu both seem to have
pressure
to move forward, and the policy that organizes debian makes pressure to
drop support for older "obsolete" hardware (that is debian is same on
all
arches and there is no "lite" option(s))

The dominance of Intel is beginning to seem to me as disruptive as
microsoft,
more so in the open source arena.

Post by Pater Patriae
HowTo check and repair HFSplus in Linux.
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1859336#post1859336

wow this cool, i know there are some debian people who would like
this. i also
think its cool that there is a reverse port apparently going on ie
something came
from darwin ports rather than from the usual routes.

[Matt Broughton]

Post by Pater Patriae
Hi everybody! I've been working the last 2 days on installing Ubuntu
on my 300 mHz iBook. I followed the manual and my linux installed
perfectly, however now I'm unable to boot into OS 9.

Finally!! There is someone else that has the same problem I ran into.
I just installed Fedora Core 6 on my B&W G3. OS 9 would not boot. An
OS 9 bootable utility disk could not see any partitions either. Driver
Setup could see the disk but could not mount it.

I have some more information that may provide more insight. My B&W G3
has two hard disks. Both were formatted using Disk Utility from OS X
10.4.8 making sure that the OS 9 disk drivers were installed. The one
that I installed Fedora Core also contained an install of OS 10.4.8.
The second disk contained 4 partitions with OS 10.4.8, 10.3.9, 10.2.8,
and 9.1 installed. After I installed FC, everything worked fine with
exception of OS 9. Mac OS X (all versions) saw all the partitions and
booted properly when set up in yaboot.

I reformatted the disk that did not contain FC and repopulated it with
the different OSs. Everything worked fine -- including OS 9 from that
disk. The OS 9 installation, however, still could not see the disk
that contained FC and OS 10.4.8.

My working hypothesis is that the Linux installer (disk druid?) somehow
made the disk drivers invisible to OS 9 or it damaged the drivers. The
partition listing for each disk shows the driver partitions are still
there. I have no clue as to how to proceed. Perhaps with this
additional information, someone can help us.

I ran 'pdisk -lf' from OS 10.4.8. The output is below--with added
comments. The first disk is not recognized by OS 9. The second disk
was reformatted after I installed FC.

---------------------------------------------------------------
mini:~ matt$ sudo pdisk -lf

Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/rdisk0'
#: type name length base (
size )
1: Apple_partition_map Apple 63 @ 1
2: Apple_Driver43*Macintosh 56 @ 64
3: Apple_Driver43*Macintosh 56 @ 120
4: Apple_Driver_ATA*Macintosh 56 @ 176
5: Apple_Driver_ATA*Macintosh 56 @ 232
6: Apple_FWDriver Macintosh 512 @ 288
7: Apple_Driver_IOKit Macintosh 512 @ 800
8: Apple_Patches Patch Partition 512 @ 1312
9: Apple_Bootstrap untitled 2048 @ 1824 (
1.0M)
10: Apple_HFS "Next" 30871080 @ 31395368 (
14.7G)
11: Apple_UNIX_SVR2 untitled 204800 @ 3872
(100.0M)
12: Apple_HFS "Voyager" 93772880 @ 62528592 (
44.7G) ###OS 10.4.8
13: Linux_LVM untitled 31186696 @ 208672 (
14.9G)
14: Apple_Free Extra 262144 @ 62266448
(128.0M)
15: Apple_Free Extra 16 @ 156301472

Device block size=512, Number of Blocks=156301488 (74.5G)
DeviceType=0x0, DeviceId=0x0
Drivers-
1: 23 @ 64, type=0x1
2: 36 @ 120, type=0xffff
3: 21 @ 176, type=0x701
4: 34 @ 232, type=0xf8ff


Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/rdisk1'
#: type name length base (
size )
1: Apple_partition_map Apple 63 @ 1
2: Apple_Driver43*Macintosh 56 @ 64
3: Apple_Driver43*Macintosh 56 @ 120
4: Apple_Driver_ATA*Macintosh 56 @ 176
5: Apple_Driver_ATA*Macintosh 56 @ 232
6: Apple_FWDriver Macintosh 512 @ 288
7: Apple_Driver_IOKit Macintosh 512 @ 800
8: Apple_Patches Patch Partition 512 @ 1312
9: Apple_Free 262144 @ 1824
(128.0M)
10: Apple_HFS "Bach" 58348272 @ 263968 (
27.8G) ###OS 10.4.8
11: Apple_Free 262144 @ 58612240
(128.0M)
12: Apple_HFS "Mozart" 58348272 @ 58874384 (
27.8G) ###OS 10.3.9
13: Apple_Free 262144 @ 117222656
(128.0M)
14: Apple_HFS "Beethoven" 58348272 @ 117484800 (
27.8G) ###Reserved for OS 10.2.8. My backup clone was corrupted.
15: Apple_Free 262144 @ 175833072
(128.0M)
16: Apple_HFS "Strauss" 58346416 @ 176095216 (
27.8G) ###OS 9.1
17: Apple_Free 16 @ 234441632

Device block size=512, Number of Blocks=234441648 (111.8G)
DeviceType=0x0, DeviceId=0x0
Drivers-
1: 23 @ 64, type=0x1
2: 36 @ 120, type=0xffff
3: 21 @ 176, type=0x701
4: 34 @ 232, type=0xf8ff


Matt

[tortoise]

Post by Matt Broughton
Finally!! There is someone else that has the same problem I ran into.
I just installed Fedora Core 6 on my B&W G3. OS 9 would not boot. An
OS 9 bootable utility disk could not see any partitions either. Driver
Setup could see the disk but could not mount it.

ohh... (now i vaguely recall something like this did happen to me once)


did you try using the button that says "update drivers" and then
rebooting? of course, you may have problem there of 10.4 vs 9.

another possibility is to copy install, on a fresh disk linux utility
parted can do
this. i don't know about 10.4 but i have done it with 10.3 also (my
disk
failed this past summer and also i was doing test install of a new
installer...)

Post by Matt Broughton
I have some more information that may provide more insight. My B&W G3
has two hard disks. Both were formatted using Disk Utility from OS X
10.4.8 making sure that the OS 9 disk drivers were installed. The one
that I installed Fedora Core also contained an install of OS 10.4.8.
The second disk contained 4 partitions with OS 10.4.8, 10.3.9, 10.2.8,
and 9.1 installed. After I installed FC, everything worked fine with
exception of OS 9. Mac OS X (all versions) saw all the partitions and
booted properly when set up in yaboot.

[snip]

Post by Matt Broughton
My working hypothesis is that the Linux installer (disk druid?) somehow
made the disk drivers invisible to OS 9 or it damaged the drivers. The
partition listing for each disk shows the driver partitions are still
there. I have no clue as to how to proceed. Perhaps with this
additional information, someone can help us.
I ran 'pdisk -lf' from OS 10.4.8. The output is below--with added
comments. The first disk is not recognized by OS 9. The second disk
was reformatted after I installed FC.

i don't know how that "os9 drivers" thing is supposed to show up. but
you know as far as apple is concerned it is pretty much out now, with
intel mac.

Post by Matt Broughton
---------------------------------------------------------------
mini:~ matt$ sudo pdisk -lf

[snip]

[Matt Broughton]

Post by tortoise

Post by Matt Broughton
Finally!! There is someone else that has the same problem I ran into.
I just installed Fedora Core 6 on my B&W G3. OS 9 would not boot. An
OS 9 bootable utility disk could not see any partitions either. Driver
Setup could see the disk but could not mount it.

ohh... (now i vaguely recall something like this did happen to me once)
did you try using the button that says "update drivers" and then
rebooting? of course, you may have problem there of 10.4 vs 9.

Yippee!! That worked. I had completely forgotten about that function
in Drive Setup. Hopefully that will also work for the OP.

OS X doesn't use or install by default any disk drivers on the physical
hard drive, so there should be no issue with compatibility using the OS
9 supplied drivers.

The only thing I am not sure about is whether the disk drivers installed
by OS X 10.4.x were newer than those installed by Drive Setup in OS 9.1.
This issue may only be of concern in my particular situation or anyone
trying to run a replacement drive from the motherboard ATA connection on
a Rev 1 B&W G3. The Rev 1 B&Ws have a major problem with data
corruption in this case. I thought I had read that the OS X drivers
alleviated this problem.

Thanks for the help. I hope it works for the OP as well.

Matt

[tortoise]

Post by Matt Broughton

Post by tortoise
did you try using the button that says "update drivers" and then
rebooting? of course, you may have problem there of 10.4 vs 9.

Yippee!! That worked. I had completely forgotten about that function
in Drive Setup. Hopefully that will also work for the OP.

great, i'm glad.

Post by Matt Broughton
OS X doesn't use or install by default any disk drivers on the physical
hard drive, so there should be no issue with compatibility using the OS
9 supplied drivers.
The only thing I am not sure about is whether the disk drivers installed
by OS X 10.4.x were newer than those installed by Drive Setup in OS 9.1.
This issue may only be of concern in my particular situation or anyone
trying to run a replacement drive from the motherboard ATA connection on
a Rev 1 B&W G3. The Rev 1 B&Ws have a major problem with data
corruption in this case. I thought I had read that the OS X drivers
alleviated this problem.

is that why you are running 9.1 ? i think you can try the same trick
with
the drive setups that come with the 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 updaters ?? i
think if
i looked at a disk that was orginally formatted with 9.1 but updated
that
way, in linux i saw a slightly different partition map setup than if i
formatted with 9.2.2 originally, that is a few little partition in
there with
i/o kit, apple patches, and one other. that is perhaps the source
of the overwrite, that some variation in the structure.

Post by Matt Broughton
Thanks for the help. I hope it works for the OP as well.
Matt
--
Matt Broughton
Only relatives are absolute.

[Matt Broughton]

Post by tortoise

Post by Matt Broughton
The only thing I am not sure about is whether the disk drivers installed
by OS X 10.4.x were newer than those installed by Drive Setup in OS 9.1.
This issue may only be of concern in my particular situation or anyone
trying to run a replacement drive from the motherboard ATA connection on
a Rev 1 B&W G3. The Rev 1 B&Ws have a major problem with data
corruption in this case. I thought I had read that the OS X drivers
alleviated this problem.

is that why you are running 9.1 ? i think you can try the same trick
with the drive setups that come with the 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 updaters ??
i think if i looked at a disk that was orginally formatted with 9.1
but updated that way, in linux i saw a slightly different partition
map setup than if i formatted with 9.2.2 originally, that is a few
little partition in there with i/o kit, apple patches, and one other.
that is perhaps the source of the overwrite, that some variation in
the structure.

When I double checked, the Drive Setup that was on my utility
(customized to include a bunch of stuff) was the latest available from
either 9.2.1 or 9.2.2.

I still use OS 9.x a couple of times a year for certain functions that
have not been satisfactorily addressed by OS X apps. As long as I still
use or want access to OS 9.x, I want to be able to access all disks on
the computer. The issue of using the OS 9 drivers supplied by OS X will
become a non-issue if/when I find out how to get a Linux distro to boot
from a disk attached to a Sonnett Tech ATA66 (ACARD) controller card. I
think it is just a matter of open firmware syntax to properly point to
the bootstrap partition and yaboot that I haven't yet figured out.

Matt