Mac, Intel, and LinuxPPC

[Andrew J. Brehm]

Apple's recent announcement will most likely have a significant impact
on LinuxPPC.

Power Macs are the biggest and most affordable source of Linux-supported
hardware.

Any thoughts of how this will affect LinuxPPC?

(I don't use LinuxPPC, but I have used it before I switched to Mac OS
X.)

[Jack Malmostoso]

Post by Andrew J. Brehm
Any thoughts of how this will affect LinuxPPC?

Actually the real power of PPC is in the server market. Let's face it:
apple products are used by a small minority of the Real World (TM), and an
even smaller share use linux.

IBM, Bull and others will continue selling PPC based servers, in which
linux will find its way. On the other hand, today's Xserves and such will
be converted to linux in a couple (or more) years, when Apple will stop
supporting them.

So I guess BenH and the other PPC hackers will stop worrying about sleep
on fancy notebooks, and maybe thinking about some "more seriuos" stuff.

[Andrew J. Brehm]

Post by Jack Malmostoso

Post by Andrew J. Brehm
Any thoughts of how this will affect LinuxPPC?

apple products are used by a small minority of the Real World (TM), and an
even smaller share use linux.
IBM, Bull and others will continue selling PPC based servers, in which
linux will find its way. On the other hand, today's Xserves and such will
be converted to linux in a couple (or more) years, when Apple will stop
supporting them.
So I guess BenH and the other PPC hackers will stop worrying about sleep
on fancy notebooks, and maybe thinking about some "more seriuos" stuff.

That is all true. But LinuxPPC has enjoyed some time as a desktop OS
now. And I fear this will be lost.

But then its greatest success in that market was before Mac OS X was
out, I think.

[Jack Malmostoso]

Post by Andrew J. Brehm
That is all true. But LinuxPPC has enjoyed some time as a desktop OS
now. And I fear this will be lost.

I think that not having new hardware to worry about, the linux kernel will
establish itself on the existing "desktop" machines, allowing to use "old"
macs with linux without problems.
It is what actually happens on x86: if you buy the latest and greatest
hardware you can find problems, while using hardware of -say- 1 year ago
will allow you to install without relevant problems.
Probably the time scale will be different, but there is so much less
hardware to account for.

[Rick Jones]

Post by Jack Malmostoso
Actually the real power of PPC is in the server market. Let's face
it: apple products are used by a small minority of the Real World
(TM), and an even smaller share use linux.

Any idea as to the relative number of machines there? certainly the
revenue share would be in favor of the servers, but how about the unit
numbers?

rick jones
i guess i'll have to try a netperf compile on OS-X/x86 one of these days :)

[l'indien]

Post by Jack Malmostoso

Post by Andrew J. Brehm
Any thoughts of how this will affect LinuxPPC?

apple products are used by a small minority of the Real World (TM), and an
even smaller share use linux.
IBM, Bull and others will continue selling PPC based servers, in which
linux will find its way. On the other hand, today's Xserves and such will
be converted to linux in a couple (or more) years, when Apple will stop
supporting them.

The embedded PowerPC market is also wide but, as the chips are costless,
there is less money to get here...
But MPC5xx, MPC8xx, 405 & 440 are still widely used and, imho, will still
be.

Post by Jack Malmostoso
So I guess BenH and the other PPC hackers will stop worrying about sleep
on fancy notebooks, and maybe thinking about some "more seriuos" stuff.

Great !

[p***@gmail.com]

Yes, let's face it, BenH use a Mac to develop for LinuxPPC.
I know that is a non serious platform for you BUT he develop in one of
these.

The Apple demise will have very serious consecuences for PowerPC and
any thing runing over it.

IBM drop the ball and will not recover with easy.
May be you can get a XBox 2 or a PS3, runing with cell processors,
that's are really serious platforms we need to concentrate as IBM does.

Pietro

[abpp]

Here are two PPC system vendor alternatives to Apple that will continue
making and selling PPC systems after Apple stops:

http://www.pegasosppc.com/odw.php

http://www.gvs9000.com/workstations.html


The PPC will continue on the Desktop and on the Rack!

Post by p***@gmail.com
Yes, let's face it, BenH use a Mac to develop for LinuxPPC.
I know that is a non serious platform for you BUT he develop in one of
these.
The Apple demise will have very serious consecuences for PowerPC and
any thing runing over it.
IBM drop the ball and will not recover with easy.
May be you can get a XBox 2 or a PS3, runing with cell processors,
that's are really serious platforms we need to concentrate as IBM does.
Pietro

[p***@gmail.com]

Yes, there are options, but the Mac option was the most useful of them.
Good design, afforadable prices, you can reuse old macs to run Linux
etc.

IMO, IBM drop the ball not supporting Apple requests and not to support
the lack of software for Linux itself in it's own architecture. The
last is a serious problem and there are many examples of them
unfortunately. For one, IBM Java implementation is much more complete
in x86 than PPC, or two, IBM employes today use x86 laptops an
desktops, 10 years after PPC start to sell.

Linux in PPC will survive I hope, but the demise of Apple will have a
serious impact. PPC is anyway better architecture but IBM must focusing
to help your users to implement solutions over it.

Pietro Pesci Feltri

[abpp]

Yeah, but Genesi and GVS are good for now. By the time Apple completely
surrenders to the inferior CISC of Intel more vendors should be out.
The people of YDL are working with some vendore too.

Post by p***@gmail.com
Yes, there are options, but the Mac option was the most useful of them.
Good design, afforadable prices, you can reuse old macs to run Linux
etc.
IMO, IBM drop the ball not supporting Apple requests and not to support
the lack of software for Linux itself in it's own architecture. The
last is a serious problem and there are many examples of them
unfortunately. For one, IBM Java implementation is much more complete
in x86 than PPC, or two, IBM employes today use x86 laptops an
desktops, 10 years after PPC start to sell.
Linux in PPC will survive I hope, but the demise of Apple will have a
serious impact. PPC is anyway better architecture but IBM must focusing
to help your users to implement solutions over it.
Pietro Pesci Feltri

[jim bob and joe bob]

Post by Andrew J. Brehm
Apple's recent announcement will most likely have a significant impact
on LinuxPPC.
Power Macs are the biggest and most affordable source of Linux-supported
hardware.
Any thoughts of how this will affect LinuxPPC?
(I don't use LinuxPPC, but I have used it before I switched to Mac OS
X.)

It is anybody's guess how LinuxPPC will be affected. Time will tell.


From Jack's post:
It is what actually happens on x86: if you buy the latest and greatest
hardware you can find problems, while using hardware of -say- 1 year ago
will allow you to install without relevant problems.

Maybe that is the key. Using more outdated hardware seems to become
more of a problem. The system gradually fails to recognize older
machinery by default. For example, my wintel box has only serial
keyboard and mouse. Linux (sarge or woody) finds the keyboard but
cannot recognize the mouse without help. Ubuntu the same but simply
goes on to drop you into X with no pointer. At least Libranet prompts
for user config.
While I ramble, sarge seems to run ok on the wintel box. I was trying
to find a program over the last weekend and apparantly sarge went stable
a couple days before the announcement. It took most of the afternoon
but everything got upgraded.
kk

[Jack Malmostoso]

Post by jim bob and joe bob
The system gradually fails to recognize older
machinery by default.

Mmmmhhh this is because hardware recognition routines of the variuos
distributions tend to focus on the mainstream hardware. Honestly, how many
people are using a serial mouse in 2005? Not many. And probably those who
are, are good enough to edit manually /etc/X11/xorg.conf to change the
protocol manually.

I think.

[jim bob and joe bob]

Post by Jack Malmostoso

Post by jim bob and joe bob
The system gradually fails to recognize older
machinery by default.

Mmmmhhh this is because hardware recognition routines of the variuos
distributions tend to focus on the mainstream hardware. Honestly, how many
people are using a serial mouse in 2005? Not many. And probably those who
are, are good enough to edit manually /etc/X11/xorg.conf to change the
protocol manually.
I think.

Mostly people like me, I should imagine. People that run cheap/free
used computers. (grin) Maybe for the same reason we want to run Linux?

kk

[Larry Anderson]

Post by Andrew J. Brehm
Apple's recent announcement will most likely have a significant impact
on LinuxPPC.
Power Macs are the biggest and most affordable source of Linux-supported
hardware.

Of the architectures I have the most frustration trying to get Linux on a
Mac. And I find x*^ much cheaper then Mac hardware (Iv'e used macs for
over 15 years, btw.)

Post by Andrew J. Brehm
Any thoughts of how this will affect LinuxPPC?

I don't think it will be good, the support has lagged from x86 fron the
start, unless they can crack into the xBbox 2, which would be good as it
would be a stable hardware base (mac hardware varys more than you think).

Post by Andrew J. Brehm
(I don't use LinuxPPC, but I have used it before I switched to Mac OS
X.)

I think most Linux/Unix people go to OS X more than making a Mac to Linux,
due to the capability of running a lot of Linuxy stuff via fink and having
the commercial slick apps from Apple. Nor do I thnik it will hurt the
Linux x86 market either, Macs will never be cheap.

I think apple sees it as conceptual boost as it gives better inroads for
integrating x86 Linux and Windows stuff into the Mac, but I think Apple
will find it will loose it's identity again like it had licensing Apple
clones, it might just become a flashy desktop capable of running all that
other stuff.